Fast and Furious blowback? Issa believes 'thinly veiled' threat from ATF chief targeted would-be whistleblowers

Special Guests: Rep. Darrell Issa





GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Has the ATF scandal just gotten bigger? Are ATF whistleblowers now being threatened? Watch this video message to ATF workers. It's from their boss, the ATF acting director. What's the message behind it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. TODD JONES, ATF ACTING DIRECTOR: Consequences means simply that if you make poor choices, that if you don't abide by the rules, that if you don't respect the chain of command, if you don't find the appropriate way to raise your concerns to your leadership, there will be consequences because we cannot tolerate -- we cannot tolerate an undisciplined organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, lawmakers are calling the video message ominous and scary. Is it really meant to chill whistleblowers? House Oversight chair Darrell Issa and Senator Chuck Grassley firing off a letter to ATF acting director Todd Jones to find out.
Chairman Issa joins us. So what do you think of this video?
REP. DARRELL ISSA, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Greta, I don't think your viewers can reach any other conclusion except this is a thinly veiled threat, telling people, Don't go to the press, don't go to Congress, even if the chain of command isn't working, which is really what happened in Fast and Furious.
It wasn't that ATF people weren't screaming bloody murder. It's they weren't being listened to by Justice or by some of their leaders.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, were your whistleblowers ATF?
ISSA: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: So I guess you draw the conclusion that this is -- that this video was a statement to other whistleblowers within ATF.
ISSA: When law enforcement closes ranks even when things are wrong, that is exactly what the American people are concerned about. And especially when you have a U.S. attorney who helps cover it up and then an attorney general who ultimately won't turn over the facts related to it, of course, you're worried about it.
If not for the whistleblowers, Senator Grassley and our investigation would have never gotten started. Whistleblowers were critical to us understanding and ultimately knowing what to ask for. And in most cases, the most meaningful information we never got from Justice, we got from whistleblowers.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the ATF is denying that this video was an effort to tell whistleblowers they better shut up. The ATF spokeswoman says that the video clip was taken out of context. She said the message was one of eight internal videos released since March that addressed topics ranging from trust to mission to morale, that this one dealt with choices and consequences, but it was not meant to discourage legally protected activities. It was directed at employees who violate the rules. It was not directed at those with protected disclosure.
ISSA: You know, when I was a young man, if my hand was in the cookie jar and my mom wanted to know if I was taking a cookie, I didn't say, What cookie jar? You can look at this in context, and it's very clear: Use your chain of command or else. No question at all about it. It speaks for itself.
VAN SUSTEREN: Where did you get this video?
ISSA: Well, I think one of the things that we're proud of is that people who see wrongdoing take advantage of federally protected rights to come to Congress. Sometimes they go to the press. We're not always happy when they go to the press, but candidly, they've got to go somewhere when their chain of command is failing.
If that video hadn't come to our attention, we again would have had a closing of the ranks, intimidation that would lead to whistleblowers not doing the right thing. And let's remember some of our whistleblowers are discrete. People don't know who they are. Some became known. The ones that became known have been the subject of intimidation and bad treatment. No questions about it.

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